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What is the problem this group addresses?

Since the very beginnings of online auctions on eBay, Yahoo auctions and other venues, there has been continual fraud in the sale of collectibles which are misrepresented or simply not authentic.

Why are stamp, coin and antiquities dealers and collectors concerned about Internet fraud?

Although those who have experience in buying on eBay and similar venues know what to look out for and can generally avoid fraud, neophytes are vulnerable to it. It is not in the best interests of collecting as an avocation, or of those whose businesses serve collectors,  that those who have recently taken an interest in collecting should be victimized by unscrupulous Internet sellers.


This list is dedicated to discussing effects of online auctions (and other Internet venues) selling forgeries, fakes, altered and misrepresented items on the avocations of collecting stamps, coins, antiquities and other collectibles.

The definition of "collectibles" for this group does not include autographs, sports memorabilia, trading cards, Franklin Mint productions and similar items, and in general anything intentionally created to be sold as a collectible.

The term "stamps" is defined as including all objects recognized as collectible by stamp collectors, such as postage, revenue, tax and hunting license stamps,  covers, philatelic postcards, blocks, sheets and all other officially issued stamps of any kind including embossed stamps on documents and encased stamps used as currency.

The term "coins" is defined as including all objects recognized as collectible by coin collectors, such as coins, medals, tokens, coinage related artifacts such as dies, and paper currency.

Antiquities are defined to be the products of all ancient cultures prior to the Islamic conquest of Sasanian Persia  (649 a.d.) and also the products of the Byzantine Empire prior to the fall of Constantinople in 1204 a.d. Although the list particularly focuses on minor antiquities, all kinds of antiquities including ancient weapons and ancient art objects are considered to be topical.

Topics may include the need for regulation and legislation to protect collectors from Internet fraud, methods and modus operandi of those who sell fake and misrepresented collectibles, news and events related to fake collectibles, ways in which venues on which fakes are sold could be modified/improved, and anything else that tends to discredit the perceived authenticity of stamps, coins, antiquities and other collectibles. Basically anything to do with fraud and authenticity issues in online trading of stamps, coins, ancient artifacts and other collectibles is on topic.

Lively discussions are encouraged but extended flames, abusive language, rants and repetitious postings are not. Sales notices and other commercial postings are not allowed.

To contact the moderator directly send an email to:

Your moderator (listowner) is Dave Welsh.

Please note that the Yahoogroups server automatically removes attachments of any kind. This is a safety measure to ensure that the emails that you receive from the list are virus free. it also makes it impossible to send images to the list. However, images can be uploaded to the home page.

List Use and Rules

The language used in all posts, announcements and replies shall be English.

The List Agenda
This discussion list has an agenda:

To define the impact of Internet fraud involving sale of fake and misrepresented items on collectors of coins, stamps, antiquities and other collectibles. The objective is to arrive at an understanding of the practical effects of this fraudulent trading, the problems and difficulties that it causes, and the extent to which it creates uncertain or unfavorable market conditions that impact collectors and the sale of collections.

Finally and most important, the agenda iof this list is to devise, promote and campaign for remedial action to control (and where possible eliminate) fraudulent Internet trading in fake and misrepresented collectibles.

What is allowed?
Almost anything as long as it is related to the problem of
fake and misrepresented collectibles being sold via the Internet, and the law as it applies to this.

What is particularly Encouraged?
   * Information on how online venues can be induced to impose meaningful self-regulation
   * Legal opinion, from any qualified source, particularly regarding:
         - Legislation involving online auction venues and other venues involved in sales of collectibles
         - Regulation of online auction venues and other venues involved in sales of collectibles

Commercial Postings
Commercial postings of any kind are prohibited, but posters may include a link identifying their commercial website in their signature block provided that no advertising language accompanies this link.

What is NOT allowed?
   * Political commentaries or diatribes.
   * Profane or abusive language, personal attacks against Listmembers or anyone else.
   * Ad hominem arguments of any kind. It is appropriate to criticize ideas, but never individuals.
   * Flame wars.

What is Discouraged?
   * Repetition. Once a point has been made, there is no need to keep repeating it.
   * Red herrings. Discussions should either provide general information of interest or advance the agenda.
Members of eFakes-L are required to behave responsibly towards the list and each other. The moderator reserves the right to exercise censorship. The list focuses on a subject where opinions are strongly held on both sides of the issues, and it is essential that the rules of civility be observed. Arguments do not become more effective by being presented in a discourteous or abusive manner.

Moderation and Expulsion
The moderator reserves the right to place users under moderation (messages will be approved by the moderator before distribution to the list) or in cases of flagrant abuse, to expel users, permanently or temporarily. Profane or abusive language will be grounds for immediate and permanent expulsion from the list.

The moderator, at discretion, may mediate ongoing disputes or disagreements.
Contributing to the list

The reply-to default for the list is to the sender only. If you want to reply to a message and have it go to the group at large, you will have to either use a 'reply to all option' or add to the email address list in your message.

There are no foolish questions on this list. If there is something you don't understand, please ask.

Contributions from all points of view are desired. The intention is to have a balanced discussion of issues. Whether you are a collector or a dealer concerned about practical problems involved in sales of fake collectibles,  a government employee concerned about problems involved in regulating such venues, or a representative of one of the venues concerned,  your opinion is valued.

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Other options

If you have an event or know of one that may interest other list members, feel free to post it on our Calendar. The calendar is open to all members. You will have to go to, and select the User Center to access it.

Shared disk space
Yahoogroups graciously provides up to 5 megabytes of disk space that may be used for shared images and other uploaded files. New listmembers should review uploaded files since they contain valuable information.

You can upload an image or other file to our Yahoogroups 'shared' space for all to see. Instructions on doing this can be found at: .

Please keep file sizes as small as possible since we only have 5 megabytes available. Files may be purged at the discretion of the moderator if deemed inappropriate or after 30 days (less if the shared space is very active).

Message Archive
Every message that has been posted to the list is stored in the message archive. The archive can be searched for topics of interest. New listmembers should review the message archive before posting messages.


Since messages to this list are not moderated unless a listmember has just joined (to prevent spamming) or gives reason for moderation, the list owner of eFakes-L does not warrant or otherwise take responsibility for any message included in the list. Please exercise the same caution as you would approaching anything available on the Internet. Parents are strongly urged to monitor their children's usage.


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